Monday, February 2, 2009

«Motivational Monday: 1Timothy 2:11»

Know your Bible; see just how much of you actually ignore. The only parts of the Bible that you follow are the parts that suit you and your morals. And believe it or not, your morals (probably) don't follow the Bible.

1Timothy 2:11 / Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to be kept silent.
You got to love that Bible...

Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to be kept silent.

- 1Timothy 2:11-12

Like others have said, the Bible is repulsive.


  1. The same apostle Paul commanded this: "husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her ..." - Ephesians 5:25

    Aren't respectful wives as rare as caring husbands?

  2. @ Looney: That doesn't mask the fact that women are not equals in the bible. 1Timothy 2:11 is commanding a little more than respect from women.

  3. Looney - what the two quotes prove is that a the Bible has at best a deeply paternalistic attitude to women. At worst it shows that the attitudes are inconsistent - almost to the point of being schizophrenic.

  4. Bunc, first, I think we should note that Christianity brought a huge improvement to the status of women when it first spread throughout the empire. Some cultures had polygamy. The Romans had serial monogamy, where the wives were traded in like Americans trade in used cars.

    More importantly, however, all cultures have unspoken social contracts giving both benefits and obligations. You can't unilaterally discard an obligation without paying a price somewhere else.

  5. Don't you just HATE it when girls talk to much

  6. @ Anonymous: lol, not any more-so than when men talk too much.

  7. It says that no woman should "assume" authority over a man in other versions of the bible, but what if the man gives her authority, or she was commanded by GOD to teach? Men and woman have different roles and we all have spiritual gifts. For instance women are more fit to teach children since we are naturally child-bearers, and a man is to provide.

  8. @ Bianca Hooper: What other version are you referring to? I just searched 17 versions of the Bible and the results are pretty clear.

    Not a one used the word "assume". I did see a lot of "I do not permit a woman to..." or "I do not allow a woman to..." or even "I suffer not a woman to..."

    There was one that phrased it as "In my opinion it is right for a woman not to..." In God's humble opinion that is, as the Bible is accepted as the word of God...

  9. @ Bianca Hooper: Oh, and to answer your question: If a man gives her authority, the man is going against the word of God. If the woman believes she's been commanded by God to teach, then she is delusional.

    According to the Bible anyway. In my atheistic opinion, women are to be treated equal and just as capable as men.

  10. In practice, churches that have women preachers gradually switch to 60/40 or 70/30 ratios of females to males, with most of the males being children. The men stay home, drink beer and watch football.

  11. Bianca Hooper
    What about woman prophets? Should they speak to a man about first before they give a prophesy?
    Also, I have been to churches where the men do not want to step up and assume a leadership position so the women step up only to help them, what do you think about that?

    Personally, I don't agree with women leading a congregation because that is not biblical. Men are suppose to be shepherds of God's flock. I also know that it says in 1 corinthians 11:3 "Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God."

  12. @ Bianca Hooper: What do I think? I think the Bible is full of crap. Women should have equal rights and responsibilities. That being said, I think prophets are full of crap, too... Male or female.

  13. @ Marf the bible is the T R U T H

  14. Bianca Hooper
    @ marf. Why do you think that?

  15. @marf We are not saying that women are to be treated as dogs or that they should have mussels on their mouths. Women are to be treated in a loving manner. A marriage reflects Christ and the church. Christ has agape (unconditional love) for His people.
    1 Timothy 2:10-15 (New Living Translation)

    10 For women who claim to be devoted to God should make themselves attractive by the good things they do.

    11 Women should learn quietly and submissively. 12 I do not let women teach men or have authority over them.[a] Let them listen quietly. 13 For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived by Satan. The woman was deceived, and sin was the result. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing,[b] assuming they continue to live in faith, love, holiness, and modesty.

    Do you understand why it is that way now??

  16. @ Bianca Hooper: The Bible gets so much blatantly wrong, and the rest is written in such a way that it's vague enough to be about anything you want it to be. It's no better than any other religious text.

    @ Anonymous (#15): I've read that passage before, and the ones around it to get some context. While the image was meant to be an exaggeration, it still says women are not to have a position of authority and are to be submissive. It also blames women for all sin. That to me is deeply offensive.

    I do understand that the Bible was written BY men FOR men. Not just men as in humans, but literally males. So yes, I do think I understand why it is written that way.

  17. Marf, you need to make sure you read right. You can make text say anything you like if you don't understand it. You comment '. Women should have equal rights and responsibilities.' Well, this is what the Bible says when you read it carefully. Please explore my comments on 1 Tim 2 here.

  18. I am catholic. Anyway, Bible was written over 2000 years ago and indeed reflects the social organization of those times. You can't deny that In 2000 years things are changed a little bit. For woman too...

  19. Why don't you pick on the Quran? You afraid to get your head chopped off?

  20. @ Anonymous (#18): Nope. It's because I live in a nation where Christianity is the dominant religion. I'm surrounded by Christianity, not Islam.

    They're both incredibly stupid beliefs. I just attack the one closest to me.

  21. Marf you should really read this book called more than a carpenter. It is written by Josh McDowell. A guy who was an atheist. It's just a historical research book that's all. Check it out :D


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